To answer the question how does the new 6700 Shimano Ultegra group compare to Sram. I said I was happy with my 6700 but not everything about it I am happy with but the pros out number the cons.
I've used the old Rival but Sram have recently released their new Rival group and have gave the Force group a face lift after it was plaged with problems. Either I have yet to test so I can only compare it to the Red. The old Rival is nowhere in the same league but at the moment with the new releases I think I would prefer the Sram and this is why.
Cyclingnews just this week put up their review of the 6700, and it is fairly much spot on as far as the shifting goes. Shimano gave into their consumers and went for hidden shift cables and it's a move which I think has cost them. No longer is it the smooth light feel it used to be. The lever throw is longer and feels almost sluggish, you can feel the friction for sure and Dura-Ace is the same. Pre Sram you either liked the clunky shift of Campag or the lighter shift of Shimano. Sram is somewhere in between I think. The Red has a clunky sound but it is light at the lever and the throw is much shorter. I prefer the shifting of Sram over the new Shimano but I am yet to also try the 11 speed Campag range. The thing with Shimano is it has always sounded whisper quiet through the gears and still does, but Sram makes a slight noise like if its just not quite meshing right. It's something many mechanic's here agree on, your always fine tuning gears, replacing cables and the rear derailleur is a pain for wheel changes. I also think some componets on the Sram wear out a little quicker than on Shimano.
For me the new Ultegra is only let down by its shifting on the rear, the front is perfectly smooth at the crank yet the feel at the lever is not the same. I would have prefered if the group was the same but the shift cables [although hidden is a much better look] on the outside like before. Everything else on the 6700 is perfect, well not all is perfect as there is those name plates with the tiny screws. Maybe with some high quality cables it may improve the shift, but you shouldn't need to. The shift at the moment has too much friction. Maybe it's all a plan to get people to buy Di2, but I doubt it.
Sram is a tad more expensive so you have to buy what you can afford. For about the same money as 6700 you will only get Rival with Sram, but that is not a bad thing. The new Rival has alot of hardware borrowed from Red so it will be a good contender as far as performance. If you can budget a little more the new Force is very close to the Red and for that money you could also just about buy Dura-Ace or Chorus. Performance of groups these days are all very close, it just comes down to weight and thats what you really end up paying for.
If your thinking of upgrading then stick to your budget and try and test the different groups if you can to see what you like the feel of, my view may not be the same as yours.
Hope that helps
Funky.
Friday, November 20, 2009
Saturday, November 14, 2009
Groupset Upgrade
I recently upgraded the groupset on my bike to the new Shimano 6700 Ultegra which I purchased from Rock with their end of season sell out equitment. I had the old Ultegra SL, but it is still an upgrade because this group has all the new ergonomics. I had worked with the 7900 Dura Ace at Rock so I was already aware of the changes that annoyed me with that, which I will explain as I go. With the Ultegra being very close to the Dura Ace I was interested to try the new change of Shimano out on the road for myself. So here is my view and a basic rundown of the new groupset, for anyone thinking of upgrading the same.
Firstly, as I said it is much like the top level Dura Ace, almost everything is the same apart from all the Ti hardware that the DA uses. Let me start with the most obvious and biggest change, the shifters. They are certanly much more comfortable then the old version. The rear of the hood body is much wider which gives you great support under your palms, and if you double wrap your bar tape like I do it fills out the hood [just where they meet the bars] real nice. The front of the hood is narrower which is good for getting a grip with your fingers. The levers mechanicals are open to the elements and you can feel the inner workings just slightly with your fingers underneath, but it is a smooth clean finish and it doesn't feel as thou something is pretruding enough to bother you that much. But you realise why there not used much in cyclocross, teams had stuck with the more consealed 7800 DA instead and this season are now using Di2 which seems to be faultless in all conditions. I have used the Di2 but it's way out of my budget to have.
The hidden cables are also a much cleaner look, but as they do not run the smooth cable line as before shifting is what I believe not as crisp as the 6600.
The other bad points are the body's fixing bolt is now located on top and can be hard to get to. The rubber hood covers are quite solid and do not give you much room to fit the 5mm hex key in, but this is really a one time thing, once there set that's it but take care not to damage the bolt. The inner shift cables are a little more tricky to guide in than previous and replacing the outter is not as simple as before. If you replace just the inner it will not just thread directly into the outter, you will have to pull back the tape and with a tiny flat head screwdriver push on the inner and guide it through. And then of course there is the little name plate you have to remove from the front everytime you need to change a brake cable.
Also I find the lever a tad bit far away, but that is with the bars I use and not everyone will have this trouble as it depends on your bars and the length of your fingers. As you can see above my finger tip just reaches the lever and with these gloves on it's hard to grip. The group comes with reach inserts to push the lever inwards but they stick out a little and clearly look like an ugly add on. I would have prefered if they made the lever more like the Di2 lever blade which is alot slimmer. Lindsay had a try of the new 6700 and she could not even brake with her hands on the hoods, but she does have small hands so that is something to keep in mind. She now uses my old Ultegra SL and finds that much more user friendly for her smaller hands. In all, these are all minor things and probably will not bother the average weekend rider, the comfort of the new shape makes you forget everthing else.
The new 6700 brake callipers share a resembalance to the DA with a better look than the previous Ultegra. Shimano have once again increased the braking power of this new generation brake, not that they needed to has they stopped you quite good before. The new adjuster barrel is much better and is more easily to turn when on the bike. It sits there freely but has a small rubber ring on the bottom to prevent it from falling out. And unlike Sram or Campy, Shimano make the STI hoods and now callipers that you do not need cable ferrules, only at the frames bosses.
The crankset also sports the new Hollowtech technology and uses virtually the same Hollowglide chainrings has DA but with a different finish. When I first saw the DA it appeared the chainring bolts threaded into the crank, but that is not the case. They thread into the outter ring going through the crank spider as normal. If you strip the thread in the ring your up for a new ring, but thats better than a new crank arm as some may have first thought.
Not too much to say about the front derailleur besides it works. It has both trimming in the small and large rings and still has the strong spring tension and cage stiffness Shimano has always had. It will do both standard and compact cranks.
My pedals I have gone back to some 105's I was given as my old DA pedals were worn out, 4 years they lasted but they were giving me a sore left knee so they had to go.
The rear derailleur is identical to DA but uses a alloy cage rather than the carbon, which I think the alloy is stiffer. The short cage derailleur will now also take a 28T cog. It also like the front, still has that strong spring tension to give it rapid precise shifting. I also like the way the Shimano derailleur has spring tension on the hanger, unlike the Sram. With wheel changes in a race it is much better as the tension pulls the derailleur out of the way in order for the wheel to drop straight out. I don't yet have a cassette but the new 6700 is all steel sprockets and the lighter lock ring as DA does, not to mention a huge range of ratios. I also am running an older chain as my local shop didn't have the new one in stock. It is slightly different and is designed to work with the pick up points on the front rings better, but the old version seems to work ok for me at the moment. The new chain is also slotted and has slots only on one side of the outter plates. The side [that's the outter plates] that doesn't have slots goes to the outside and the all slotted side goes to the inside.
One more thing to mention is the satin finish the group has, keep it clean. Work on it with greasy hands and you'll smudge grease prints all over it and spend some extra time cleaning it off with some kind of desolvent.
So in all I think it is a fantastic group for the money. It is lighter than the previous, has a good look and works very well for your average rider. But if you are one of those people that just have to have Dura-Ace then that's fine, but if you want to save a few bucks then go for the Ultegra. As far as buying a bike, if your looking at two identicle frames but one has 6700 and the other with 7900 and your deciding whether to spend the extra 1000 or so price difference and thinking you would really be stretching the budget doing it, then go the one with 6700, it is so close to 7900 you will barely notice the difference. I think Shimano have done well with this group and marketed it well, they should sell alot of them as groups and bikes spec'd with it should also do well, being that it is so very close to its bigger brother. I'm happy with it.
Happy riding
Funky.
Firstly, as I said it is much like the top level Dura Ace, almost everything is the same apart from all the Ti hardware that the DA uses. Let me start with the most obvious and biggest change, the shifters. They are certanly much more comfortable then the old version. The rear of the hood body is much wider which gives you great support under your palms, and if you double wrap your bar tape like I do it fills out the hood [just where they meet the bars] real nice. The front of the hood is narrower which is good for getting a grip with your fingers. The levers mechanicals are open to the elements and you can feel the inner workings just slightly with your fingers underneath, but it is a smooth clean finish and it doesn't feel as thou something is pretruding enough to bother you that much. But you realise why there not used much in cyclocross, teams had stuck with the more consealed 7800 DA instead and this season are now using Di2 which seems to be faultless in all conditions. I have used the Di2 but it's way out of my budget to have.
The hidden cables are also a much cleaner look, but as they do not run the smooth cable line as before shifting is what I believe not as crisp as the 6600.
The other bad points are the body's fixing bolt is now located on top and can be hard to get to. The rubber hood covers are quite solid and do not give you much room to fit the 5mm hex key in, but this is really a one time thing, once there set that's it but take care not to damage the bolt. The inner shift cables are a little more tricky to guide in than previous and replacing the outter is not as simple as before. If you replace just the inner it will not just thread directly into the outter, you will have to pull back the tape and with a tiny flat head screwdriver push on the inner and guide it through. And then of course there is the little name plate you have to remove from the front everytime you need to change a brake cable.
Also I find the lever a tad bit far away, but that is with the bars I use and not everyone will have this trouble as it depends on your bars and the length of your fingers. As you can see above my finger tip just reaches the lever and with these gloves on it's hard to grip. The group comes with reach inserts to push the lever inwards but they stick out a little and clearly look like an ugly add on. I would have prefered if they made the lever more like the Di2 lever blade which is alot slimmer. Lindsay had a try of the new 6700 and she could not even brake with her hands on the hoods, but she does have small hands so that is something to keep in mind. She now uses my old Ultegra SL and finds that much more user friendly for her smaller hands. In all, these are all minor things and probably will not bother the average weekend rider, the comfort of the new shape makes you forget everthing else.
The new 6700 brake callipers share a resembalance to the DA with a better look than the previous Ultegra. Shimano have once again increased the braking power of this new generation brake, not that they needed to has they stopped you quite good before. The new adjuster barrel is much better and is more easily to turn when on the bike. It sits there freely but has a small rubber ring on the bottom to prevent it from falling out. And unlike Sram or Campy, Shimano make the STI hoods and now callipers that you do not need cable ferrules, only at the frames bosses.
The crankset also sports the new Hollowtech technology and uses virtually the same Hollowglide chainrings has DA but with a different finish. When I first saw the DA it appeared the chainring bolts threaded into the crank, but that is not the case. They thread into the outter ring going through the crank spider as normal. If you strip the thread in the ring your up for a new ring, but thats better than a new crank arm as some may have first thought.
Not too much to say about the front derailleur besides it works. It has both trimming in the small and large rings and still has the strong spring tension and cage stiffness Shimano has always had. It will do both standard and compact cranks.
My pedals I have gone back to some 105's I was given as my old DA pedals were worn out, 4 years they lasted but they were giving me a sore left knee so they had to go.
The rear derailleur is identical to DA but uses a alloy cage rather than the carbon, which I think the alloy is stiffer. The short cage derailleur will now also take a 28T cog. It also like the front, still has that strong spring tension to give it rapid precise shifting. I also like the way the Shimano derailleur has spring tension on the hanger, unlike the Sram. With wheel changes in a race it is much better as the tension pulls the derailleur out of the way in order for the wheel to drop straight out. I don't yet have a cassette but the new 6700 is all steel sprockets and the lighter lock ring as DA does, not to mention a huge range of ratios. I also am running an older chain as my local shop didn't have the new one in stock. It is slightly different and is designed to work with the pick up points on the front rings better, but the old version seems to work ok for me at the moment. The new chain is also slotted and has slots only on one side of the outter plates. The side [that's the outter plates] that doesn't have slots goes to the outside and the all slotted side goes to the inside.One more thing to mention is the satin finish the group has, keep it clean. Work on it with greasy hands and you'll smudge grease prints all over it and spend some extra time cleaning it off with some kind of desolvent.
So in all I think it is a fantastic group for the money. It is lighter than the previous, has a good look and works very well for your average rider. But if you are one of those people that just have to have Dura-Ace then that's fine, but if you want to save a few bucks then go for the Ultegra. As far as buying a bike, if your looking at two identicle frames but one has 6700 and the other with 7900 and your deciding whether to spend the extra 1000 or so price difference and thinking you would really be stretching the budget doing it, then go the one with 6700, it is so close to 7900 you will barely notice the difference. I think Shimano have done well with this group and marketed it well, they should sell alot of them as groups and bikes spec'd with it should also do well, being that it is so very close to its bigger brother. I'm happy with it.
Happy riding
Funky.
Monday, November 2, 2009
Holiday Over
My three weeks home in Oz has ended and I'm now back at my European home in Holland, trying to brave the 10-15 degree difference in weather temp as I prepare for the winter off season.
Peter and Stefan at the start of The Warny.
I had my last official race at the Sun Tour but I did one last [or two] race for a favor to my brother Peter and his mate Stefan by doing the feedzone for them in the Melbourne to Warrnambool Classic.
It's a job I have done a number of times at this race, having no real interest in doing the race myself when I was racing, although I did start it one year when it was 300km in distance. Being a Warrnambool boy there were questions to why I'd never done the race but the truth is I've never being interested, I always had such a busy year juggling fulltime work, racing track, mountainbikes and of course road. So again I would do the feed for Pete but this would be the first time after spending 3 years in Europe, and it really opened my eyes to the difference in the way races are organised and run compared to Europe. I don't want to say too much about it all as this could turn out to be a long post, but I have put forward my thoughts to the people involved. There were some things I noticed in the Warny [and the race on Sunday] that seemed to me just either unsafe or downright stupid. The Police seem to do a fantastic job, but their job could be made easier by better planning and organisation of the race for everyone involved. I'm no expert but there are a few things that could be done to make it better. I will just say getting to the feed in Lismore was a nightmare, and alot of people following the race had no idea which way to go.
Guy, Roy, Peter and Stefan at the start of the Shipwreck Coast Classic.
After some much needed family time it was time take the long flight home. Luckily all the materials we bought over for the Sun Tour was taken off our hands, so for me travelling back was made much easier with just my bag, toolbox and two empty bike bags. Once back it was soon straight back onto the tools as Gil had some bikes for me to build up, thou not new team bikes rather than Cinelli bikes for public customers. Gil is a authorised Cinelli dealer in Belgium and sells them through his shop and he gets me to build them up when ordered. The idea is to give the customer more of a one on one service, they get to hand pick their build to create the perfect bike. Then if they wish the customer can have me size them up on the bike and get all the measurements perfect. The other day I built one up for Patrick's [our soigneur] brother which was one of the custom frames for VdB, it came up nice with the red paint work but I prefer the white one. There was only one problem with the frame, someone at Cinelli forgot to fit the cable guide tube that sits in the bracket juction for the front derailleur cable to run through. But that was something I had come across before [on another brand] so I was able to fix it. Patrick and his brother were here just this weekend to check the fit of the bike where I could make any personal adjustments, so when he picks the bike up all he has to do is ride it. Just on Friday Sven delivered two more for me to build, in which one has to be ready on Monday so it looks like I have some work to keep me busy. If I can do 3 or 4 builds a week plus a fit up then it may just make those winter off season days go a little quicker until I find a team.
On that note, I recently applied for a team but am waiting to hear back, and I still wait to see what comes of the new team from Gil and Rudi where they have some good options on the table, but its all just talk until the dotted line is signed on.
Cheers
Funky.
Peter and Stefan at the start of The Warny.
I had my last official race at the Sun Tour but I did one last [or two] race for a favor to my brother Peter and his mate Stefan by doing the feedzone for them in the Melbourne to Warrnambool Classic.
It's a job I have done a number of times at this race, having no real interest in doing the race myself when I was racing, although I did start it one year when it was 300km in distance. Being a Warrnambool boy there were questions to why I'd never done the race but the truth is I've never being interested, I always had such a busy year juggling fulltime work, racing track, mountainbikes and of course road. So again I would do the feed for Pete but this would be the first time after spending 3 years in Europe, and it really opened my eyes to the difference in the way races are organised and run compared to Europe. I don't want to say too much about it all as this could turn out to be a long post, but I have put forward my thoughts to the people involved. There were some things I noticed in the Warny [and the race on Sunday] that seemed to me just either unsafe or downright stupid. The Police seem to do a fantastic job, but their job could be made easier by better planning and organisation of the race for everyone involved. I'm no expert but there are a few things that could be done to make it better. I will just say getting to the feed in Lismore was a nightmare, and alot of people following the race had no idea which way to go.
Guy, Roy, Peter and Stefan at the start of the Shipwreck Coast Classic.
After some much needed family time it was time take the long flight home. Luckily all the materials we bought over for the Sun Tour was taken off our hands, so for me travelling back was made much easier with just my bag, toolbox and two empty bike bags. Once back it was soon straight back onto the tools as Gil had some bikes for me to build up, thou not new team bikes rather than Cinelli bikes for public customers. Gil is a authorised Cinelli dealer in Belgium and sells them through his shop and he gets me to build them up when ordered. The idea is to give the customer more of a one on one service, they get to hand pick their build to create the perfect bike. Then if they wish the customer can have me size them up on the bike and get all the measurements perfect. The other day I built one up for Patrick's [our soigneur] brother which was one of the custom frames for VdB, it came up nice with the red paint work but I prefer the white one. There was only one problem with the frame, someone at Cinelli forgot to fit the cable guide tube that sits in the bracket juction for the front derailleur cable to run through. But that was something I had come across before [on another brand] so I was able to fix it. Patrick and his brother were here just this weekend to check the fit of the bike where I could make any personal adjustments, so when he picks the bike up all he has to do is ride it. Just on Friday Sven delivered two more for me to build, in which one has to be ready on Monday so it looks like I have some work to keep me busy. If I can do 3 or 4 builds a week plus a fit up then it may just make those winter off season days go a little quicker until I find a team.
On that note, I recently applied for a team but am waiting to hear back, and I still wait to see what comes of the new team from Gil and Rudi where they have some good options on the table, but its all just talk until the dotted line is signed on.
Cheers
Funky.
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